Professor Bolaji Akinyemi, former Director-General of the Nigeria Institute of International Affairs, NIIA, and External Affairs Minister, in this interview, spoke on the state of the nation, where and how Nigeria missed the mark, the Uwais’ report and the way forward among others.
What is your estimation is a state of the nation?
There is very little I can add to what everyone including the likes of Sheikh Gunmi, the Sultan, Prof. Wole Soyinka, Baba Ayo Adebanjo and General Olusegun Obasanjo, retd, even the President himself and the governors have been saying. I can’t add to their list of dissatisfaction on the state of the nation. So, there is insecurity, youth unemployment, hate and an unguarded speech by people who should know better.
Most disturbing is what now looks like religious conflicts. When I was growing up, there was religious tolerance. At least I come from a culture where you could hardly have a family that does not have Christians, Muslims and Traditional worshippers among them and they coexist happily. All of a sudden we are confronted by intolerance, murder, and mayhem targeting people of other religion. I find it very very disturbing indeed.
My grandfather once told me a story to illustrate the tolerance towards various religious groups in ancient times. He said an Oba (king) of a neighboring town sent a delegation to the Oba of our town, asking our Oba to send a delegation to join them in a celebration.
Our Oba asked the delegation what they wanted to celebrate, and they said they wanted to welcome one of theirs who had gone on a pilgrimage. Our Oba sent a delegation to rejoice with them and take part in their celebration.
When the delegation came back and briefed our Oba the story of the celebration, he called a meeting of the heads of the quarters in the town and said to them, the other town now has an Alhaji, while our town does not. What he did was to levy every quarter, every religious institution in the town including Anglican, Methodist and Aladura so that we can send somebody from our town to Mecca the following year and also can claim we have an Alhaji. And that was what happened. How did we come to a situation where even among Yoruba we are now talking about religious intolerance? You have governors in the South-West who for political reasons are exhibiting religious intolerance not to talk about the whole country. It’s very disturbing and unnerving.
Some are of the view that there had been religious intolerance before independence…
We had four sources through which religion penetrated into Nigeria before the Europeans came. The first was the Islamic region that came through traders from Mali. Another Islamic religion came through Turkey to the Southern part of Nigeria. That’s why you have titles like Shitta Bey in Lagos. Christian missionaries also came into the Southern part of Nigeria. The last was the Jihad, which came from Futa Jalon that led to the establishment of the Sokoto caliphate.
The penetration of Islam from Mali and Turkey and the Christian missionaries were peaceful but the Jihad was not. So that was where problems of intolerance started. The moment you decide to establish a religion by force you talking about intolerance.
Intolerance was evident when the British came. They were able to curtail it but it has never left. Organizations and movements respond to external factors. Look at what is going on in other parts of the world in term of conflicts: the ISIS, the Taliban, the problem between the Shiites and the Sunni Muslims. All these are world phenomenon and Nigeria is not immune to them. Nigeria has just become another theatre to be fought over by these developments.
On Northern Christian Elders Forum, NCEF’s stand on Islam (Sharia) as a form of ideology battling over democracy
They made a good point and I think we shouldn’t lose sight of that. They said the problem is not with Islam as a religion. This is what I meant when I said there was no problem when we had Islam from Mali and from Turkey. NCEF claimed the problem started from those advocating that Islam should be more than a religion and become a political ideology. It means putting Islam in competition with other religions. There is a problem with Islamic Jihad and Christianity. The Jihad embodies competition, conflicts, imposition and violence. The way forward is to separate Islam as religion from Islam as a political weapon.
So how do we separate Islam as a religion while some forces are using it as a political weapon?
Laws should be enforced to protect each religion from intolerant acts by another religion. We have to accept that Nigeria is a multi-religious nation. Both Muslims and Christians have a right to exist in Nigeria. Also, there is a need to criminalize speeches and acts that demonize any religion in the country.
His thought on Omoyele Sowore and #RevolutionNow# protest
The Constitution provides us with a right for peaceful protest. The moment you go beyond the margin of peaceful protest, you are asking for a push-back by the institutions of governance.
You could see it in Hong Kong when the protest by the activists is peaceful, the push-back by the police is peaceful. When the protest by the activists crossed the red line into violence, the push-back by the police is violent.
People who are dissatisfied with the way things are in Nigeria are entitled to peaceful advocacy. What they are not entitled to is violent advocacy because the push-back from the system is then likely to be violent. Peaceful protest is a right and entitlement by people who are dissatisfied with what is happening. What is not an entitlement is a violent protest, whether that violence is by language or activities. Language could be violent. If I am planning a Revolution, I will not go on the pages of Newspaper or radio to argue and advocate for a Revolution. I will plan under the ground. That is the way you do it if you are planning a Revolution. You do it underground, hold secret meetings because the moment you broadcast that you are planning a revolution, the push-back by the system is also likely to be revolutionary in terms of being violent and that was what you got in this case you’re referring to.
If there is dissatisfaction with what is going on in Nigeria, I expect the youth to rise up and say this is our future we are fighting for because unless things change, Nigeria is in trouble.
The economy is not growing, youth unemployment has been described as a time bomb. Elections were rigged mercilessly. Elections have always been rigged in Nigeria, but I don’t even see a mass movement for electoral change. I served on the Justice Muhammed Uwais committee for electoral reform. We wrote a report that we felt addressed the issue but that report was buried by the government of the day. No reaction but the law of Karma had actually set in that the government of the day is now the opposition, they’re now screaming their head off about how elections were rigged. When we submitted the report to them they did nothing about it. Now they are screaming.
Former Governor of old Kaduna State, Alhaji Balarabe Musa once referred to the call for restructuring as separatists agenda, what is your thought on this?
How would the call for restructuring be equated to separatism? People calling for restructuring said look at the Constitution at Independence or if you like look at the Constitution of 1963, compare it with the Constitution we have now and you will realise that there is too much power vested in the centre while very little power is vested at the state and local government levels.
It was not like this at independence and on the eve of the coup. It was the military that changed it. Now that civilians are in charge, let us go back to 1963 so that local governments can manage affairs at the local government level, state governments can manage affairs within the state environment and the Federal government would then manage very limited issues like foreign affairs, currency, and defence among others.
That is what restructuring is all about. What has this got to do with separatism? I was the deputy chairman of the national conference, we came up with about 600 recommendations. And each recommendation was adopted unanimously. The report is there if you don’t like the report, set up a committee to take a look at all the reports on structural changes in the country that have been advocated and take the ones that address the problem of the day. Has as the Nasir El-Rufai committee not also called for restructuring?
Who then is afraid of Restructuring?
I don’t know. Maybe Balarabe Musa. People who don’t like restructuring are the people benefiting from the overwhelming power attached to the centre.
On the call for State of emergency on security in South-West by Professor Wole Soyinka
What would be achieved by the call because all the elements of security are under the control of the Federal Government? Without changing the Constitution, you cannot transfer some of these powers to the states. You cannot transfer by just declaring a state of emergency on security. Declaring a state of emergency will not give governors power over the Nigerian army within the South-West region. Prof. Soyinka means well as he is fed up with the state of insecurity. He’s angry about it and he came up with what he thinks is a solution to it but if we think it is not going to yield the desired result, let us think about other alternatives.
How can Nigeria live in peace and unity?
The totality of what we desire is to allow local governments to handle what should be handled at the local government level, state governments to handle what needs to be handled at the State level. That’s the sum total of what will work. ome colossus called the federal government. The restructuring was advocated even when Obasanjo was President, it was advocated when Jonathan was President. Jonathan was in power when the 2014 national Conference was flagged off and we created the blueprint for decentralization of the country. All I am saying is not targeting Buhari but targeting a bad constitution which needs to be rewritten.
Who will re-write the constitution? It is the responsibility of the National Assembly
The National Assembly will not do it if the NGOs and civil society groups sit on their behind and without putting pressure on the National Assembly.
It’s easy to blame the government but what are the NGOs and the civil society organizations doing? There are so many cases that should go to court. You know the Court can amend the constitution through interpretation. But if you don’t take a case to court, how can the court help to amend the constitution?
Unfortunately, civil society organizations, NGOs are busy fighting other battles maybe because that is where they get their money from; they have their own agenda different from the agenda at home. How will the National Assembly feel the heat from the people if there are no demonstrations? When I say demonstration, I don’t mean a one million march. Twenty thousand people can paralyze the work of the National Assembly.
What is your thought on the issue of zoning the presidency?
That is not the major problem facing Nigeria. There are many more critical issues affecting the existence of Nigeria than talking about zoning ahead of 2023.
What are the issues?
We have the issue of Ruga. We have youth unemployment. We have the issue of an overburdened Federal Government as against decentralization we have been talking about. We have the issue of State police and local government police. Are these not issues that have an immediate impact on the existence of Nigeria? After all from 1979 up till now, we have rotated offices, what good has it done this generation in providing employment for the youths? What good has it done the standard of education in our universities? It hasn’t raised the status of our universities to be among the first 100 in the world. Instead, we clap for being among 20 in Africa.
In the 60s, I grew up at a time when Nigerian universities were rated among the best in the world. We keep going down. There was a time a coup took place and they announced that one of the reasons was because our University teaching hospitals were mere consulting clinics. Has it gotten any better since then? And we are talking about zoning presidency.
How did we get here?
We got here because we have never been allowed to have a free, fair and transparent election in Nigeria. Even the British rigged elections in Nigeria. I was reading how the British rigged elections in Nigeria. There are two Nigerian files in the British secret archives on Nigeria’s history. These files are supposed to have been declassified so scholars could have access to them. The British two years ago re-embargoed it for another 50 years. What is in those two files that the British don’t want us to know? What exactly are there? They want this present generation to die off before they declassify those files. We have never been allowed to choose our leaders, maybe that’s how we got to where we are.
Is there light at the end of the tunnel?
It may be the light of the train that is going to crush all of us. But I don’t see any light at the end of any tunnel. I don’t even see the end of the tunnel not to talk about seeing a light.
Do you agree with Prof. Soyinka that Nigeria is heading toward the abyss?
It is heading that way but it doesn’t mean it will get there because of the indomitable spirit in people to fight back. Maybe, when we actually see the edge, all of us would say no, we are not going to allow this. Never give up hope. Keep hope alive. Human history is not made by people giving up hope. It has never been and it will never be. We just haven’t got to our stage of fighting back. We will get there. We will eventually fight back.
In this interview with Gboyega Akinsanmi, he calls for an emergency conference of African leaders devoted solely to discussing Africa-China relations in the light of China’s renewed racist inclinations against Africans and black people in general. Excerpts:
Last week, the federal government accused China of racism and discrimination against the black people, especially, Nigerians living in the Asian country. Is this appropriate in a 21st century?
Let me start this way. I am very aware of the propaganda competition for African minds going on between China and the United States. I am very much aware that the Western world is panicking about the Chinese incursion into Africa. Also, I am very aware that the Chinese themselves are trying to put the best foot forward. Against the background of this propaganda competition, I have been very much upset about the videos that have been coming out of China.
I am very much upset even about the videos that have been coming out of Africa itself. I saw a video this morning (Saturday, April 25, 2020) that showed a Chinese man with his hands around the breasts of two naked African girls. These girls are about the age of 10 or 12. To me, as a black man, I found it very insulting. So, I have come to the conclusion that though there is a propaganda war going on between China and the United States for the minds and souls of Africa, the Chinese behavior has actually become very appalling.
Let the Chinese deny that they are not discriminating against Nigerians, Africans or black people in their country. Let the Chinese deny that they are not giving loans to African countries, knowing that they cannot repay. Let the Chinese deny that they are not taking over the running of airports and the running of police forces in East Africa. Let the Chinese deny that they have not adopted racist policies in what I have considered the recolonization of Africa in the 21st century.
This, to me, is appalling. All these things are to me unacceptable. African leaders must unite against it. However, I know African leaders are to be blamed, because nobody is forcing them to put their countries in these situations. Nobody is forcing them to allow the Chinese establish colonies in Africa. Even in Nigeria here, there are Chinese towns allover. There are Chinese, who are even involved in some of our local markets. This is not American propaganda.
With these scenarios, how should African leaders and Nigeria handle the situation?
First of all, I think there should be an emergency conference or summit of the African Union. Fortunately, it can now be done through Internet services or e-conference. With the outbreaks of Covid-19 worldwide, African leaders do not necessarily have to go and gather in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, the headquarters of the African Union (AU). The Chinese even built the edifice for the AU. What an insult! That summit should be devoted to discussing one item: discussing Africa-China relations. I believe free and frank discussion should take place.
One of the decisions that should be reached at the conference is that African leaders should stop going to Beijing, China for the Summit of on China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC). This summit makes African leaders look like slaves lining up to be refilled by the Chinese leaders. That should be the first resolution. Second, African leaders should no longer sign any economic agreement that allows China ship thousand of her own citizens to Africa. Chinese are even doing manual labour in Africa. That violates our local content law.
Third, African leaders should insist that China should sign agreement with the African Union or with individual African countries to cover the treatment of Africans in China. Fourth, African countries should educate, inform or sensitise their own citizens, who purposely go and subject themselves to inhuman treatment in China. The Chinese are not forcing Africans to come to their country. Africans are going there to trade, and there should be limit to things that can be done, that should be endured or that should be tolerated even by the Africans themselves.
If proven that China’s recent racist inclination breached the 1969 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, can African countries, specifically Nigeria, consider legal action against China?
Let us not go as far as that as of now. If Africa is to sue any country, where Africans are ill treated in the world, believe me, they will end up suing even 50 per cent of the countries in the world. So, let us not go that far. The next step is bilateral approach. If it is not going to work, then, we should consider going to the United Nations. We should look at the prospect of tabling this issue at the UN General Assembly, because it will lead to condemnation.
Obviously, China will have to rethink their policies. Nobody wants to be named and shamed. I have listed steps that African countries can take both in their own countries and in their bilateral relations with China. Let us start with this approach. I am sure you have seen the video of the meeting between the Speaker, House of Representatives, Hon. Femi Gbajabiamila, and Chinese Ambassador in Nigeria, Mr. Zhou Pingiian.
That was a good step taking on bilateral basis. I hope you have listened to some comments of the Honourable Minister, Foreign Affairs, Mr. Geoffrey Onyeama. I think that African decision makers are becoming aware of the need to mount a pushback against what China is doing in Africa.
The Responsibility to Protect is a global political commitment, which all member states of the United Nations endorsed in 2005 to address growing concerns about crimes against humanity. In the light of the videos we have seen and the reports we have read, how should the Chinese authorities take their obligation under the UN Charter henceforth?
First, the Chinese authorities should be aware that this kind of things going on could do irreparable damage to their reputation in Africa. Chinese are showing the kind of arrogance and colonial mentality that Africans have gone through before, especially, at the period of colonization. But China should be aware that this is the world of the 21st century and not the world of the 19th and 20th centuries. And the things they think they can get away with are no longer possible in the world of the 21st century.
They will not get away with it. It will damage their relationship with Africa. I think Chinese President Xi Jinping, needs to be aware that Africans, at different levels, are very upset about inhuman treatment of Africans in China. China should be aware that Africa has alternative. It is true that our relationship with the West has not been an entirely brilliant one. There are also issues in the African relationship with the West. I admit that, but it is not as bad as what the Chinese are showing.
Similarly, the Chinese should be aware that African countries could exercise their rights of reciprocity or retaliation. Actually, we, Africans, are more educated now than we were two centuries ago. We can no longer tolerate what we tolerated from the West two centuries ago from any foreign country or power – be it China or the United States. I believe this is one of the things that China should be aware of that Africa could retaliate. It is better not to start relating with us that way.
You just mentioned that African countries have other alternatives. What are those alternatives?
Is it a must we trade with China? If there is a need with China, we can trade with the Chinese world. However, we can trade with other parts of the world. That is an alternative. Like I said, our economic relations with the West need to be fine-tuned. But it’s there. It is an alternative.
In an increasingly dynamic global system, how should Nigeria and by extension other African countries handle their relations with the world henceforth – either China or the West?
Honestly, we should regard this coronavirus pandemic as God-given opportunity for us to sit down and develop an economic template that allows us to be less dependent on the rest of the world. As a former Minister of External Affairs and a globalist in attitude, I also recognise that there is probably a level or a red line within which each African country should not allow itself to fall. A situation, in which you import toothpick from China, handkerchief from China or any country for that matter, should be regarded as unacceptable.
I think each African country, especially, those who have industrial base, should develop local industries. African countries should develop economic templates that will help build up national factories or national industries that will produce goods rather than simply export one material. Let them start producing industrial goods, which they themselves can start exporting after they have satisfied their local markets. This can even be done through fiscal or financial policies that allow the government of each country to assist in building up these factories and industries.
In this part of the world, it appears we have leaders that can hardly see beyond today. In addition, the rate at which the global powers are flooding Africa has beclouded most African leaders to see beyond their status as suppliers of raw materials. What can African leaders do to realize the agenda you have set for them?
The leadership we have in Africa is as a result of three interrelated factors. The first factor deals with the behavioural pattern of the people themselves. This factor should not be ignored if we must get out of this cycle. At the election time, we do not go beyond our ethnic nose. We always hear people say it is our turn. He is our brother. He is from our clan. He is from our ethnic nationality.
As a result, we ignore national policy initiative and manifestoes that are out there. Once elections are over, we take back our thinking cap again. We then think rationally. But at the election time, it is a question of “he is my brother.” That is not the way to elect good leaders. Second, perhaps apart from South Africa, there is no African country, where elections are free, fair and transparent. That is the function of the leaders. That is also the fault of the leaders.
So, on the one hand, there is the fault of the people. On the other hand, the leaders are the cause of the challenges on the continent. That explains the kind of leadership we have. Perhaps, I should add a third factor. That is the interference in our electoral process by the foreign countries. Virtually all foreign countries or powers are interested in the evolution of African leaders, who will do their bidding when they assume offices. They often inject funds supporting non-governmental organizations (NGOs), indoctrinating the NGOs and interfering in our electoral process through the NGOs. These factors give us the kind of leaders we have in Africa. It is right when people doubt if anything good can come out of the present leaders of African countries.
Amid all these challenges, how do we manage the aggressive scramble for the minds and souls of African countries?
We need to continue to leverage the power of the media. Through the media, we need to continue to push back. The media must be involved in educating, informing and letting people know that right is right and wrong is wrong. In addition, we must not make attempt to mask the wrongness of personnel or policies through dubious justifications.
African leaders, especially, those from the ECOWAS, have started requesting for debt forgiveness from the Chinese authorities. Is that request necessary or justifiable in the light of the current global economic crisis occasioned by the Covid-19 pandemic?
The request is justifiable. It is also possible. But I do not think the ECOWAS leaders should limit their demand to China alone. I think several important people, especially Nigerians, Africans and in the rest of the world, have made debt forgiveness or debt cancellation a global issue. The Coronavirus, a pandemic ravaging the world now, is a justification for the bilateral and multilateral loans whether from the World Bank Group, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) or China. It is rightfully justifiable to ask for debt cancellation on global basis.
Is regional or sub-regional approach to debt cancellation the best? Or should sovereign states on the continent adopt their own individual approaches?
In my answer to the last question, that is why I took it all the way from the IMF to the World Bank Group. This is a global response to a global pandemic. A global approach strengthens our hand in the negotiation that will follow.
Source: Vanguard